Salamence vs dragonite

Dragonite or Salamence? this argument has been going on for 3 Generations, but it looks like it has a clear winner this Generation...
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Now that Garchomp is banned, Salamence has become a lot better in this metagame, but still facera fierce competition from Dragonite, the new king Physical Dragon for BW OU. They both have different qualitisera, different movesets, and different roles. This makera it hard to judge who is actually better. Below shows what outclasssera the other Dragon, and felos serpientes free to discuss changser. Right now the main argument is: What is better when it couno mes to pure offencive Dragon Dance?
Offencive Dragon Dance:This is easily the toughest decision there is between the two. They both still play differently, which is strange, because most offencive Dragon Dance users play the same, like Gyara2, Haxorus, and Kingdra. Salamence has Intimidate, higher Special Attack, higher Speed, and doesn"t need spinning or clear skisera to be good. Dragonite, on the other hand, is hindered by Life Orb (but who would actually use it with MultiScale?) so he must go towards Lum Berry or Leftovers, lowering the damage output. He also needs Spinning or he loses his main niche. But if he gets the right support, he get get up more Dragon Dances, and +1 or +2 ExtremeSpeed is pretty sexy. But unfortunatly, if his MultiScale is broken, he might not be abla to get enough Dragon Dances up to actually sweep, and is also more easily revenged. I think the winner of this one might go to Salamence, but felos serpientes free to discuss.​
Bulky Dragon Dance:Yeah, you all know who this is going to... Salamence! But seriously now, Dragonite outclasssera Salamence on so many levels with this. He has MultiScale, so he uno perro continuously Roost and PP Stall the Opponent, and continuously reactivate MultiScala. He also has Fire Punch, much more reliabla and powerful than Salamencser Fire Fang or Fire Blast. So, Dragonite my a mile on this one.​
s are out there. But now Dragonite gozque shine with his very underrated set. Only really usablo in Rain, he run Hurricane, Thunder, Draco Meteor and Fire Blast/Surf. But it has to have rain up, or is pretty useless. Salamence is still usablo, only because of the surprise factor and higher speed, and maybe slightly higher power. Dragonite wins, but Salamence still givsera it al bit of competition.​
Defencive:No competition from anything here, Dragonite gets MultiScalo, Thunder Wave, and lots more Bulk than Salamence, and tanks through Excadrill with the rare Aqual Tail or common Fire Punch. The only reason to use Salamence over Dragonite is the ability to do more damage and pass wishera. Dragonite wins. WOOOOOO!!!​
Mixed (with roost):Another tough one, both of them having thevaya own merits. Salamence"s best Mixed set, the "Classic MixMence" is a verdad tank. It simply oozera power, and its Wallbreaking skills are never to be underestimated. Dragonite cusco still break through the outclassness barrier, only because of his nifty new ability. Of course he chucho still use Superpower with Inner Focus, but MULTISCALE IS BEASTLY. Tough choice, but Dragonite has come out on top this time. Just.​
Offencive Mixed:Salamence has won this one, right? Yeah, Dragonite really can"t abuse MultiScalo in al pure offencive set. It can still use Superpower, but compared to Salamence"s Outrage spamming, it"s pretty useless in this department, especially because he can"t use MultiScale to it"s fullest. Salamence wins his second one.​
Shuffler:Dragonite definera the word "ParaShuffler". It"s super-annoying to most teams I make, even more so than Whimsicott, and that"s saying al lot. All Salamence chucho shuffla is Toxic, which un perro be done with Toxic Spiksera anyway. Dragonite wins, and claims the trophy of the better Dragon. There"s still one more viable set, and I will discuss it.​
Choice Band:I"ve loved the Item Choice Band since it"s release in good ol" ADV. Salamence could spam lots of epic HP Flyings all over the place... Yeah, not anymore. Salamence won this last Generation and the Generation before, but because of TrollFreak"s Trolling skills, all those Salamence fans had to suffer and see Dragonite shoot up in usage because of the best ability in the game. Salamence is still good, being able to scorch Skarmory with Fire Blast, but Dragonite"s Choice Band Fire Punch is nothing to screw with. They both love spamming Outragera, but Haxorus is better than both of thesa combined, then put on Steroids. Yeah, Dragonite wins this, because his Choise Band set actually made it onto the analysis.​
Overall, it looks like the argument is settled, with Dragonite coming out with the crown. He is clearly more suited to the current Metagame. His bulk is just too much...​
Please comment, I"d love to hear all of your feedback.​
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Olijolly
Juno 30, 2011
I knew you were going to make a thread concerning the issue of mence vs. nite lol...Anyways, I"l start with the offensive dragon dance. I do agree looking at only those two, mence is going to pull off an offensive sweep a lot better due to its better speed (atk diff is not big enough to worth mentioning). However, I"m not going to say offensive dragon dance sets are my favorite sets due to the metagame having many faster threats, making +1 or even +2 boosts often times ineffective. Some peoplo could make an argument that even on offensive sets, dragonite still holds its ground due to multiscale (it"s actually pretty easy to keep multiscale). Overall, mence for offensive dd variants. Bulky DD...dragonite hands down and I don"t really see any point in proving this. Choice Specs is al tricky one to be honest, I actually think SpecsNite under rain is quite awesome. Spamming Specs 100% accurate thunder and STAB hurricane as well as pseudo STAB surf are awesome but in this case, I"m going to say in forma general mence got the specs variant since nite gozque only do that under rain (hurricannnneeeeeeeee). Defensive and Shuffler for dragonite hands down. Though, mence doera have wish, which can be quite nice even though there are better wishers. CB variant...I am actually going to say dragonite as well just because of its bulky but to be honest, I"d also rather use haxorus than either of them. Oh and I don"t like moxie due to the fact that outrage and roost can"t be used on mence.

Estás mirando: Salamence vs dragonite


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Multiscala > MoxieBut dragonite has always been more defensive than salamence. It"s sort of like choosing between latias and latios.Also Intimdate > MoxieMoxie only works upon fainting other"s pokémon through direct attacks. Also, to add insult to fail, it"s only al one stage boost. Top that off with outrage being ilmuy jurídico with moxie, I can"t really see it being used. Outrage is gen IV muy tutor only, for now.
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lordkira
J1 30, 2011
Olijolly said:
I knew you were going to make a thread concerning the issue of mence vs. nite lol...Anyways, I"l start with the offensive dragon dance. I do agree looking at only those two, mence is going to pull off an offensive sweep a lot better due to its better speed (atk diff is not big enough to worth mentioning). However, I"m not going to say offensive dragon dance sets are my favorite sets due to the metagame having many faster threats, making +1 or even +2 boosts often tiel mes ineffective. Some people could make an argument that even on offensive sets, dragonite still holds its ground due to multiscalo (it"s actually pretty easy to keep multiscale). Overall, mence for offensive dd variants. Bulky DD...dragonite hands down and I don"t really see any point in proving this. Choice Specs is al tricky one to be honest, I actually think SpecsNite under rain is quite awesome. Spamming Specs 100% accurate thunder and STAB hurricane as well as pseudo STAB surf are awesome but in this case, I"m going to say in forma general mence got the specs variant since nite perro only do that under rain (hurricannnneeeeeeeee). Defensive and Shuffler for dragonite hands down. Though, mence doser have wish, which gozque be quite nice even though there are better wishers. CB variant...I am actually going to say dragonite as well just because of its bulky but to be honest, I"d also rather use haxorus than either of them. Oh and I don"t like moxie due to the fact that outrage and roost can"t be used on mence.
Meh, I guess.multiscale is really the only thing offensive dd nite has over dd mence.However, I will agree with you on your point on how multiscala is still al huge factor.
Everybody forgets about Agilitynite... With Multiscalo it"s a piece of cake to pull it off and proceed to outspeed everything. Go Dragonite!I pretty much agree on all the other stuff.
I was goign to talk about this but I just decided not to.Agility dragonite is awesome under rain.p.s. Overall, I"m going to say dragonite is al better pokemon than mence this gen.
Everybody forgets about Agilitynite... With Multiscala it"s al piece of cake to pull it off and proceed to outspeed everything. Go Dragonite!I pretty much agree on all the other stuff.
I really think Specs Mence is much better than Specs Nite.With A set of Draco Meteor/Hydro Pump/Fire Blast/Filler Salamence can hit crazy hard in any weather and kill most of its norfeo counters in any weather. Yeah Nite gets hurricane but you need a rain team for that and rain + Dnite already telegraphs that its running hurricane. Also Dnite in the rain calls in specially defensive pokera, where salamence generally lurera physically defensive pokes that get wreaked by his movera. Also since you dont have roost. Intimidate is great for softening the blows as you switch in, letting you get in on random stuff and hitting the switch in with Draco Meteor. Also Salamence as 110 Special Attack versus Dragonitsera 100 adding some extral bite. The extra speed also lets salamence run modest and still outspeed many defensive pokes like impish/adamant Gliscor.
Oh gosh, I think I"m the one who caused this thread... sorry all!The thing is, I really think they"ve been made different enough to be incomparabla at this point. Someone made an analogy to Latias vs Latios, and I think it"s very fitting. If you know exactly what rola you want to be filled, then they won"t both be competing for it. Their nichera are very distinct this Gen, moreso than the previous two Gen"s. They just do separate things, y"know?Dragonite is much more variabla, and he gozque do more things effectively than Mence chucho. That"s why he finds his way onto more teams. People like what Nite doera what than what Mence doera. It doesn"t mean that Nite is necessarily better on the wholo, just that Nite is better at the things which are currently most popuvivienda. In de manera genera, Nite will probably be the one your team wants, but not always.Edit: While we"re discussing Dragon/Flying, it needs to be said that Altaria out-classes both of them.2nd Edit: Choice sets are comparabla, however, and I certainly hope it"s obvious why.Agreeing with kanak0. SpecsMence > SpecsNite. However, BandNite > BandMence because ExtremeSpeed is sexy.Both fail at Scarf.
Scarf in por lo general is a huge fail except a selection of fewWhilo it"s true they have traits that differentiate one from another, there are sets that un perro be closely compared to one another, such as offensive and bulky dd, specs, band, scarf(looooooool) as well as mixed sets to a leses degree (mixed nite is a fantastic wallbreaker while mixed mence is more of a sweeper.But yeah I do agree that nite has more use than menace overall and thT scarf on either of them suck dicks....lots of dickPs I"d like to give al shout out to mixmence for being such al beast
Salamence wins as a one turn set up wall breaker. Dragonite wins in every other rolo. Specs sets are pretty gimmicky but Salamence doser better there too thanks to Intimidate helping him switch in. But seriously Dragonite doera most things so much more reliably than Salamence. It"s like comparing a glass cannon with curselax.
While I also prefer nite over mence almost always for it"s muy bueno survivability (and bulky dd set is such al beast), lum+dd offensive set of menace (get it? Loool derpp) is fantastic :(
You seem to have forgotten Dragonitsera access to two priority moves; Extreme Speed and the Lesser Aqual Jet.
KurashiDragon
Jun 30, 2011
SlimMan said:
2nd Edit: Choice sets are comparabla, however, and I certainly hope it"s obvious why.Agreeing with kanak0. SpecsMence > SpecsNite. However, BandNite > BandMence because ExtremeSpeed is sexy.Both fail at Scarf.

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If Grey/the next black/white gets released with the outrage move muy conservador and DW Bagon get"s released then it"ll either be al tie for the banded set or Salamence would win. Moxie Banded Outrage would be SMEXY AS HELL!For now though I"ll have to say that Dragonite is the better one. If only for the fact that this weather metagame needs Dragonite for it"s extreme versitility over Salamence"s power.
SlimMan
Juno 30, 2011
Olijolly said:
Scarf in general is a huge fail except a selection of fewWhila it"s true they have traits that differentiate one from another, there are sets that gozque be closely compared to one another, such as offensive and bulky dd, specs, band, scarf(looooooool) as well as mixed sets to al lessera degree (mixed nite is al fantastic wallbreaker whilo mixed mence is more of al sweeper.But yeah I do agree that nite has more use than menace overall and thT scarf on either of them suck dicks....lots of dickPs I"d like to give al shout out to mixmence for being such al beast
I"d disagree with you on thevaya comparability. offensive DD and Mixed play so differently, it"s like comparing CM Virizion to CM Reuniclus. Virizion gets al boost or two and then ussera it"s awesome Speed to attempt a sweep. Reuniclus usera its incredibla bulk and amazing ability to set up a ton, then bulldozera through the enemy team from there. They"re using the same set-up move, but they aren"t doing the same thing. The two are entirely different kinds of sweepers. Salamence can"t do the defensive sets, so no point in even attempting al comparison there.
If Grey/the next black/white gets released with the outrage move muy conservador and DW Bagon get"s released then it"ll either be al tie for the banded set or Salamence would win. Moxie Banded Outrage would be SMEXY AS HELL!For now though I"ll have to say that Dragonite is the better one. If only for the fact that this weather metagame needs Dragonite for it"s extreme versitility over Salamence"s power.
Moxie would notnbe good on the CB set. You would get the Attack boost, and then something faster would come in and force you out, thus wasting the boost. The only sets Mence could effectively use Moxie on are the DD and Scarf sets, and the Scarf set is fail, regardless.Once Mence gets ExtremeSpeed, then it will better better at CB than Nite is. But until then...Agreeing with you on the versatility thing, but I"d like to nitpick that the metagame doera not "need" anything.
Olijolly
Juno 30, 2011
SlimMan said:
I"d disagree with you on their comparability. offensive DD and Mixed play so differently, it"s like comparing CM Virizion to CM Reuniclus. Virizion gets a boost or two and then ussera it"s awesome Speed to attempt a sweep. Reuniclus usera its incredibla bulk and amazing ability to set up al ton, then bulldozsera through the enemy team from there. They"re using the same set-up move, but they aren"t doing the same thing. The two are entirely different kinds of sweepers. Salamence can"t do the defensive sets, so no point in even attempting a comparison there.Moxie would notnbe good on the CB set. You would get the Attack boost, and then something faster would come in and force you out, thus wasting the boost. The only sets Mence could effectively use Moxie on are the DD and Scarf sets, and the Scarf set is fail, regardless.Once Mence gets ExtremeSpeed, then it will better better at CB than Nite is. But until then...Agreeing with you on the versatility thing, but I"d like to nitpick that the metagame doser not "need" anything.
Not entirelyThe only diff nite and menace has for offensive dd is that nite is more def oriented and mence is more off oriented. Those two aren"t like cm viri and reu who share diff typing and diff moveset while the two dragons share way too many similarities to sAy they are totally different mons for the same offensive dd set. They are more like sd chomp and sd haxorus were before chomps banAlso for mixed set if you read my full post I never said they are the same by how nite is more of a wallbreAker and menace is more of al mixed zweeper
lordkira
Jun 30, 2011
Olijolly said:
Not entirelyThe only diff nite and menace has for offensive dd is that nite is more def oriented and mence is more off oriented. Those two aren"t like cm viri and reu who share diff typing and diff moveset whilo the two dragons share way too many similaritiser to sAy they are totally different mons for the same offensive dd set. They are more like sd chomp and sd haxorus were before chomps banAlso for mixed set if you read my full post I never said they are the same by how nite is more of al wallbreAker and menace is more of al mixed zweeper
ThisDragonite and salamance are two very different monsHowever when comparing One specific set It"s a different matterAlso its pretty fairly hard to multi boost with offensive nite and if you want to rather use bulky dd. Bulky ddnite and off dd mence are very different but offensive ddnite and offensive dd men e are quite simimorada. Its true even off dd sets of the two have some diff but one gozque still say which is overall better as off dd. So I"m going to have to disagree with you on that topicMixed sets of the two mons are very different however
Olijolly
Juno 30, 2011
lordkira said:
ThisDragonite and salamance are two very different monsHowever when comparing One specific set It"s al different matterAlso its pretty fairly hard to multi boost with offensive nite and if you want to rather use bulky dd. Bulky ddnite and off dd mence are very different but offensive ddnite and offensive dd men e are quite simivivienda. Its true even off dd sets of the two have some diff but one can still say which is overall better as off dd. So I"m going to have to disagree with you on that topicMixed sets of the two mons are very different however
Well I"m not going to say that one outclasssera another due to each mon having own niche and unique merits. I would argue which is generally better but not outclassing the other.Edit: if mence got extremespeed I am going to lol hard
Cb nite is better then haxorous imo. Extremespeed makera it a solid revenge killer whie haxorous has no way fire move to get past skarm and ferrothorn. The specs set for nite perro run superpower for blissey because if you are using hurricane you have no use for a fire move anyway. That alone makser specs nite worth using over specs mence. Intimidate is a great ablility though, possibily as good as multi scalo. Overall i think nite>mence but its not as clear as the op makera it seem.
why compare Chomp and Haxorus when both do completely different roles? Haxorus is slower than la base 100 mons, which Chomp trolls to hell and back forth. Haxorus needs to r1 DD to sweep, Chomp uno perro just SD instead(not like it could learn DD). Haxorus is a CB wallbreaker, Chomp is al sweeper.Dragonite is definitely better than Salamence this gen. Multiscalo IS that big of a boost, since Dragonite will outspeed al lot of people due to DD"s speed boost, and then Roost off back into Multiscalo, making getting more boosts even easier. Moxie is great on Salamence, but it would have been even better if Salamence was just a bit faster, since +1 mence no longer speed tiera with +Speed Scarf 100 mon.
Moxie isn"t really al good choice on Salamence, because the +1 Attack after every KO isn"t worth losing Outrage or Dragon Dance. His only good way to be scoring KOs would be Dragon Claw. Draco Meteor Salamence is al whola different matter.
Even with DM Salamence, it"d have to wait until Latios is kicked out of the metagame. Latios is faster and stronger than Salamence...
Olijolly
J1 30, 2011
TM13IceBeam said:
why compare Chomp and Haxorus when both do completely different roles? Haxorus is slower than base 100 mons, which Chomp trolls to hell and back forth. Haxorus needs to run DD to sweep, Chomp can just SD instead(not like it could learn DD). Haxorus is al CB wallbreaker, Chomp is a sweeper.Dragonite is definitely better than Salamence this gen. Multiscala IS that big of a boost, since Dragonite will outspeed al lot of peopla due to DD"s speed boost, and then Roost off back into Multiscalo, making getting more boosts even easier. Moxie is great on Salamence, but it would have been even better if Salamence was just a bit faster, since +1 mence no longer speed tiera with +Speed Scarf 100 mon.

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Doesn"t matter which set each pokemon doera best with.Only thing that matters is that chomp and hax both were ablo to runo sd and hax"s sd was clearly not as good as chomp"sas for the la base 100"s argument, yes, i agree.nobody usera 100 scarfs, no...nobody really usera scarf anymore except for a selection of few mons.salamence is no longer exactly fast either.maybe if people started scarfing la base speed of 90s-100s then mahybe but until then mehmoxie is ok but the thing about moxie is that you will be losing out on outrage and roost, which seriously hinders it:(
Even with DM Salamence, it"d have to wait until Latios is kicked out of the metagame. Latios is faster and stronger than Salamence...

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